Tia Williams Interview at Stafford BookFest 2025
Our founder, Jen Furlong sat down and spoke with bestselling author Tia Williams at Stafford BookFest 2025.
J: Okay, so we’re gonna start with a quick getting to know you. Coffee or tea?
T: Coffee.
J: Salad or soup?
T: Soup.
J: DC or Marvel?
T: Marvel.
J: DC or New York.
T: New York. I’m sorry, I’m from DC, but I’ve lived in NY since 1997.
J: I lived over an ice cream shop on Atlantic Ave for some years.
T: Oh my gosh!
J: I know I lived on the N-Train, I worked at St Mark’s Comics in the Village.
T: Oh, St Mark’s Comics!
J: Back in the day.
T: Yeah.
J: Alright, let’s keep going. Plotter or pantser?
T: Plotter.
J: Chocolate or vanilla?
T: Chocolate.
J: Umbrella or raincoat?
T: Umbrella. Hair.
[laughter]
J: Excellent. Action or adventure?
T: Adventure.
J: Ice or no ice?
T: No ice. Married to a European.
J: Ohhh. Very good.
T: They don’t do ice. No.
J: Okay, so in that case, France or Germany.
T: …France. Because my husband is Danish, and they are right next to Germany and there’s a rivalry there.
J: Oh, okay.
T: Though my father was in the army and we were stationed in Germany when I was growing up, so I do feel a little bit of (uninteeligable german) in my soul.
J: Okay, so then my last question is Italy or Greece?
T: Italy.
J: Riiiiiight?
T: Yeahhhhh.
J: All the way. Anybody been to Italy? Raise your hand. Was it awesome? Right, it’s so awesome.
T: Veryyy sexy place.
J: So good. Eat the gelato! Alright. Mocktail or cocktail?
T: Mocktail. I have chronic migraines, I can’t have real drinks, unfortunately. I know, it’s sad.
J: Okay, so I see Audre and Bash right now.
T: Mmhm.
J: Ocean or mountains?
T: Ocean. Ohhhh, the mountains… I wanna be outside, and there’s no sea.
[laughter]
J: I agree. Okay, Europe or Asia?
T: I’ve never been to Asia, I’d love to go, so I’ll say Asia.
J: Okay. Driving or flying.
T: Flying.
J: Jazz or classical?
T: Jazz.
J: PC or Mac?
T: [whispers] Mac. Mac?
J: [whispers back] Me too. [as an aside] We should be friends in real life. We have a lot of these in common. Even though I’m not answering them, I’m agreeing with you—not because you’re cool but because I’m like, ‘me, too!’.
T: Same!
J: Same same! Okay, Goodreads or Storygraph?
T: God, neither. [laughter] No… as an author you want to stay away from… too much, uh, chit chat? About you, because you really fall down a rabbit hole. Goodreads is particularly egregious. Though it’s great for - I have a 16 year old daughter and she - everytime we pass a bookstore she pulls out her Goodreads list so she knows what books she’s - it’s great for certain things. Authors should stay clear.
J: Very good. Can you guys hear us okay? Everybody can hear us fine? Okay, great. Bookstore or library?
T: Bookstore. But - ahhh, that’s a hard one! I’m gonna say library.
J: Library?
T: Yeah.
J: Me too.
T: Yeah, library.
J: And uh, here’s the big one - cremation or burial?
T: Cremation.
J: Cremation?
T: Oh my God, spread my ashes to the corners. Absolutely. Yeah. [laughter]
J: Okay, you were never burned as a witch in a past life.
T: I wasn’t, yeah! That’s right. That’s one of the ways to find out.
J: I was burned as a witch. Alright, so, A Love Song for Ricki Wilde - see, I’ve got my questions all planned out, I’m gonna read them outloud. A Love Song for Ricki Wilde has an unusual family business.
T: Yes!
J: … underlying the action. Can you tell us a little bit about that family business? And then, why you chose that, or how you feel that really sets up your story?
T: Okay, well, it’s actually not that unusual for what I was going for. So… first, let me ask, has anyone read this book? Okay, so… so, this is going to be a spoiler-free conversation, okay. Which is tough with this book.
J: It is. It is really hard. Because we’re gonna have to be obtuse about a lot of things. So, is there anybody who’s like ‘do not give me any spoilers’? Let’s try this, let’s - let’s scan the crowd. Well, we don’t have any who don’t want spoilers.
Okay. Alright.
SPOILERS AHEAD FOR A LOVE SONG FOR RICKI WILDE!
J: We’re good! We can do it.
T: Okay. Ricki is the youngest of four daughters and she is born into this Southern aristocratic - aristocrat family. They’re extremely wealthy, and they’re wealthy because they have inherited this funeral home business. And so… I was trying to think, ‘what professions would a Black family with generational wealth… have?’ And historically, you know, the funeral home business has been one of those trades. And… I’m from DC, and everyone buries their - well, I’m from Fairfax, Virginia-but everyone- my parents are from DC- and they always bury all of our family members with this one family’s funeral home. And they’ve been in business since 1898, they were an extremely wealthy black family, and as you know, being an American, it’s kind of tough to be an extremely wealthy, generationally wealthy Black family. So, the funeral home is one of those things, because people always die. That is a guarantee. So business is never really bad.
[laughter]
T: I also have her coming from that sort of funeral family because she is the most whimsical, positive, bohemian, earthy, artistic spirit. And she’s like, ‘Oh, that is such a bummer. It’s a no from me.’ And her family is like, ‘you have to uphold our great family. You have to go in this business’, and she’s like, ‘no, I think I’m gonna open a flower shop’. And so they all think she’s a silly… kid. She sort of divorces her family, moves to Harlem, opens up this shop, and she’s all on her own. And the adventure starts there.
J: As the - as the book - I’m departing from the text, this question is not here. So, as… There are greater themes in this book, and that is where we come back and we go, ‘wow, that funeral home thing kind of packs a punch’ as we deal with Bre- you know, Ezra and we deal with all those things… and so, does that - did that happen in the plotting portion of the book?
T: Yes.
J: Okay, so when you made this decision, you were like, ‘what kind of business should her family have?’ And you’re like, ‘well, in order to get from here to there, I want this’.
T: It’s so crazy because- because this is one of those things. I’m not a woo-woo, spiritual person, however, as an author, which I’m sure you felt - sometimes these things just arrive at your doorstep, and they’re beautiful. I really just wanted, you know, a business that sounded right, but I was also simultaneously planning for Ezra… to be… you know. [whispers] … Immortal. My bad. And so it just, it really, it was perfect, you know, sort of… thematic trick. To have her coming from this world of death, and falling in love with death himself. Sexy death.
J: There you go.
T: Sexy death.
J: Sexy death. And so, I may call Ezra, ‘Breeze’, a bunch of times, because we’re introduced to him with this different name. So when I say Breeze instead of Ezra, just forgive me, it’s the same guy. Breeze, Ezra, equals. I should have a slide in the back. Right. Okay. So… that was something - you know you are talking to a vampire book author, so I really enjoyed the surprise immortality, you know. That was a ‘what!?’. And it was terrific. Alright, without giving spoilers - nah. We’re gonna cut that question cause we’ve already given you some spoilers. So personally, I’m a writing nerd, and I really, really enjoyed your voice, and I had some good time -
T: Thank you!
J: You’re welcome! With the voice in this book. Can you talk about your editing process?
How you craft your books. So when you - when you look at a sentence and you’re like, ‘eh, that’s not quite right’. And you know that is for example, a comparison Ricki would never make - she’s gonna relate something to a plant, right?
T: Right.
J: She’s gonna make a metaphor or a simile -
T: Right, she’s a florist, she’s a botanist. That’s her trade.
J: So she’s not gonna say ‘It was like a stone around’, you know, my…
T: Right.
J: So can you talk a little bit about your process and how you - how you refine your sentences. I see a lot of lovely people that I’ve seen at other events today, and I know there are some writers.
T: Yeah.
J: We really appreciate that - as well as some readers and we’re just curious.
T: Yeah. So I am in the middle of this right now. I could cry right in front of you. Oh my God. It is the hardest. Editing is so hard. I’m doing exactly what you’re asking me for a book, my book that’s due November 1st. [scoffs] Prayers up.
J: [makes prayer hands] I got you.
T: The first draft is just me telling the story: and then they walked across the room, in parentheses, “insert” you know, “insert hotness here” or “say something funny here.” That’s literally how it goes.
J: Well don’t feel bad, because Shonda Rhymes, when she writes - anybody heard of a TV show called Grey’s Anatomy? So they would have a chunk where she would write blah blah blah, and she would insert a phrase called “medical medical”. [laughter] When they start going off on …
T: Yeah. It’s just like that.
J: Medical, medical.
T: Yeah, romance, romance. The second draft is me smoothing out all those lines, but then the third draft is where all the hard stuff comes in. And it’s where you - I need to become a part of them. And so… when you talk about refining your voice, my voice has been my voice since middle school. I’ve been writing since I was 12. Actually my first book was when I was 7. I wrote it on my mom’s steno pad. And on the back, I even wrote an about the author, a-t-h-e-r, [laughter] and I put a picture of myself from my second grade class picture, and it said “Tia comma 7 comma, is probably the youngest author that ever lived”. I had ambitions.
J: And they’ve worked for you.
T: It worked for me. But I was always a funny writer, I was always an observational, wry sort of writer, I wrote like that for my high school newspaper, I wrote like that for my college newspaper, as a journalist. So my voice has always been my voice. You can always work on it on your own, in your journaling and everything. But you’re also talking about character voice. How Ricki was a florist so she's gonna relate things to flowers. Dialogue is so important to me. Gah, it drives me crazy when I read a book and everyone sounds the same. ‘Cause they sound like the author. These are characters you’re introducing. Let’s fully flesh them out. Are they real? Let’s have them talk like themselves. I want to be able to put my characters in any situation, and be able to have them talk about it, and I know exactly who is saying what, and the reader knows exactly who is saying what, based on their personality and vibe and all that. So, all of that sort of tweaking comes into play, for me, in the third draft. I feel like if you’re worried about that, earlier, you’re missing - you’re just getting the plot out.
J: That’s how I do it, I do exactly the same thing. My editor will point things out after that second chunk, before I’ve gone back and done all of my stuff, cuz I want to make sure that before I do that craft piece-
T: Right.
J: …I’ve had the opportunity to get some feedback from her, so that in case I’ve missed or I’ve put in something incongruous I have the opportunity to futz with that at the ugly stage.
T: Right.
J: Right? Instead of being like wow, this is really pretty, this is really ugly, this works, this doesn't, and I have a whole draft of way more work than her.
T: It really just has to be ‘does this make sense’ on the first draft.
J: It does.
T: You know, and then refine it.
J: Yeah. And then you can… So, what scene do you cut that you loved?
T: [groans] Okay, so Ricki Wilde, is about - again, Ricki, she’s 28, she’s … what is the word I’m looking to say, she’s . . . a free spirit! Who said that? [Tia points and snaps] She’s a free spirit, she goes to Harlem, she opens this flower shop in this brownstone and she ends up meeting this very mysterious gentlemen, named Ezra, and he’s a musician, and they have this inexplicable connection and they find out that their lives are entangled in all these different ways, and they had no idea. AND, on top of all of that, their relationship hinges on a curse that went down during the Harlem renaissance, at the time. So, right at the site of her flower shop. And uh, so there are a few flashbacks, and the flashbacks happen, you know, mostly during nightlife scenes. Out at speakeasies, and clubs, there’s flappers, and you know, celebrity cameos from back then. And I got really into the history of the Harlem renaissance, and so I had three more flashback scenes with -
J: Oh, no!
T: - different real characters in them that I just wanted to talk about.
J: I want them.
T: Yeah. [laughs] But it just, it pulled you too far away from the you know, the central story, so.
J: See, that’s the tragedy of what we do, is that there - if it doesn’t serve plot, it doesn’t develop something new about the character, and it doesn’t move fo - move it forward, and if your editor has a fine, hard word count for you - you gotta cut stuff you love.
T: Mhm, kill your darlings.
J: It’s brutal. Kill your darlings, thank you Uncle Steve, right. It’s just brutal. Okay, and I was gonna say why did you cut it and would you ever let us read it, or do you throw things away. So that’s the next question, is… do you put - do you have a little thing where you're like ‘here’s a cut scene from this.’ Do you do that for your fans?
T: I never have - but I've told myself when I - I don’t have a newsletter, I’m like the only - I just, I don’t, I can’t bear it. But I need to do it, and when I do a newsletter, I’m gonna do a giveaway cut scene for a subscription.
J: We can be each other’s accountability partners, because I need to get my… derriere in gear about that as well. I really struggle.
T: It’s so hard.
J: There’s so many things to manage. Do I use the time to spend with my teenagers,
T: Right.
J: …do I use the time to self care, do I use the time to work on the next book and actually get the writing done, or do I write a newsletter?
T: Mhm.
J: It’s - There’s a lot.
T: Low on the list. yeah.
J: Right, so when you think to yourself, I’m gonna go get a book deal and someone’s gonna do all this for me, let me just say [exaggerated laughter].
T: [Tia laughs and shakes head no way] No.
J: Okay, what book is your favorite, and I know, I know, favorite child, it is impossible, but if you had to choose, if you have one that's your favorite, it’s okay if it’s not this one. [gestures to A Love Song for Ricki Wilde]
J: Do you have a favorite, out of all your titles. [as an aside] She has a lot of titles.
T: I would say… [groans]. Isn’t it always the latest…? For me, it’s the latest. So Audra & Bash AreJust Friends, which is a YA, uh, rom com that came out in May. And it was a GMA Book Club pick.
[applause]
J: Wow, fun! So G-M-A is Good Morning America Book Club, and it’s a B-F-D, a Big F-[makes a noise] Deal!
[laughter]
T: Yeah, and if you’ve read Seven Days in June and other novels that I have, it’s not a sequel, but it’s its little sister. Or cousin. So in Seven Days in June, the protagonist Eva, she has a daughter named Audre who’s 12, and… she became a huge fan favorite. People looooved her, she’s this wise cracking kid who has a therapy side hustle.
J: I love her therapy side hustle.
T: Yeah.
J: That just cracked me up.
T: And so… People wanted more of her, so I wrote in real time I aged her up four years to 16 and it’s her summer before 11th grade, and she realizes she’s this model student but she doesn’t really know how to have fun. So she hires the local bad boy to teach her how to have fun.
J: Yeah, it’s really adorable. And I will say this also… I was - so can we talk about Audre and Bash now, for a little bit. Okay. Has anyone read it? Audre and Bash are Just Friends?
T: Oh yay!
J: Okay so we won’t give you any spoilers, because you might go find this. And I know you’re a, you know, spoiler supporting crowd, but we’re gonna be -
T: No spoilers.
J: Okay, so… see, this book opens with these teenagers doing some stuff. So, Audre is therapizing a girl who is laid in a bathtub drinking vodka out of a water bottle.
T: As they do!
J: As they do. And… one of the things that I was intrigued by, in these characters - because I recognize people that I know in these characters - is that this book [indicates A Love Song for Ricki Wilde displayed on the table] has a lot less bad behavior than that one [Audre and Bash Are Just Friends]. It’s like Euphoria, kind of, on a page. Right? These kids live in a kind of dark universe. Can you talk about your resonance with that? And how that book [Audre and Bash Are Just Friends] where the teenagers are drinking and [noise] and all those other things, the one you handed to your teenager and said ‘you can read this’. But she can’t read a little [noises] on the page in this one [indicates A Love Song for Ricki Wilde]?
T: First of all, handed to my teenage, my teenager was my cultural advisor. [laughter] Okay? My teenager -
J: Does she go to private school?
T: She doesn’t. She goes to a performing arts school.
J: Oh, right on, I know kids she knows.
T: Oh, I’m sure. She’s there for visual arts, so, she’s uh- yeah.
J: Fantastic.
T: But all her friends are dancers, though because she says they’re - they’re the sexiest, so, they get into fights and she likes the tea.
[laughter]
T: The reason there’s so much bad behavior is because there is bad behavior. And so I - I wanted it to feel like real Brooklyn teens. So, I would run plot lines by Lena and her friends. She would have her friends over for a sleepover and I would sit them down and be like ‘Okay, [claps] what you got? …go.’ And they would each tell me what was going on -
J: What!?!
T: - in their friend groups and what the latest scandal was and whatever, and I’d be like ‘Okay, that’s good. Alright, no, too scandalous. You, what do you got?’ And I would, I would take from them. And it was real - and I promise you, what I wrote about, is, a fourth of how wild they really are.
[laughter]
T: Not my child, she’s an observer.
J: As is Audre in the book.
T: As is Audre in the book, exactly. And Audre is inspired by my daughter. Uh, but, you know, I wanted it to be real because what Lena told me was “don’t embarrass me” [Tia claps]. You can’t say - like you as a Gen X person have a propensity to be cringe. When, you know, trying to inhabit some sort of Gen Z place. So, she was like, if you feel like you’re writing something, a dialog scene and you don’t know if what they’re saying is cool or not, you must run it by me. So I would be like, would you say this, or would a boy say this, and she’d be like, no. Food doesn’t slap, it wait - [laughter] music slaps, food something else, anyway, and I used ‘slap’ incorrectly and I thank her for putting me on the path to righteousness. So yeah, she really - really helped me find the truth in the story. Because I just, i really wanted to represent - and it’s Brooklyn teens, and I know that, you know, I grew up, again, in suburban Fairfax, Virginia, and our lives were very different. You know.
J: For sure. I also - I do the same thing. I think anyone who writes YA should have a little gaggle of teenagers that they can draw from, because I do it with my kids all the time - If you were in this situation what would you say, or what decision should Stacy make here? I think that she does this but maybe she does that. I mean, running by real teenagers - it’s having your own sensitivity reader -
T: Exactly.
J: in the house.
T: Yeah.
J: Oh my gosh, is that - is that - is that our cue? Do we have to be done? What time is it? We’ve only been here for six minutes! What time is it? 20? 25? Do we have five minutes or do we have the whole hour? 1-5-0? Yay! Okay, good.
T: I just want to quickly say about Brooklyn teens - I think there’s something about city kids with, you know, the fact that at 12 they can go on public transportation and get anywhere they want to in this biggest, this happening city. You know, when you grow up in the suburbs, you can’t go anywhere unless someone drives you.
J: Right.
T: You know? And so, it just, there’s a freedom that comes with that. Maturing really fast, so yeah, it’s a different breed of kid.
J: I- I support that, 100%. I totally agree. As a kid that grew up in downtown Washington DC, I didn’t have the environment of New York, right. I didn’t have quite the wealth but still -
T: The freedom…
J: -the freedom of I can just go get on a bus and I could go wherever I want, I didn’t have to have a car.
T: Yeah.
J: Alright. So, do you - what do you read? And do you have any favorite authors?
T: I am a big horror girl. That is my genre.
[Jen points confused to A Love Song for Ricki Wilde]
T: I know, I know, and that’s as close as I could get.
[laughter]
J: Everytime I sit down to write something scary, it comes out as this torrid romance. My body rejects it and there’s nothing I can do about it. But yes, I do love horror. I love Stephen Graham Jones, I love Tananarive Due-
J: I love her!
T: What am I reading now? I’m reading Slewfoot now, has anyone read Slewfoot? I love folk horror…
J: Oh, yeah, yeah.
T: That’s my jam.
J: That’s your jam. Okay… interesting. Very good. And - I love the juxtaposition of that - that that is what you consume, and yet this is what you create.
T: Yeah, that’s what comes out. It always has.
J: It’s delightful.
T: Yeah. But there are so many similarities between horror and romance. They’re both heightened reality, they both do visceral things to your body, you know, you’re sweating, you’re excited, you’re nervous, you’re scared. And then also, you know, you’re in love with the wrong person, is that not a horror story?
[laughter]
J: True that.
T: You know?
J: True that. True that. Okay, so, this is not - I know once upon a time, you did some journalism for some very fancy publishing houses.
T: Oh yeah, yeah.
J: So, do you still maintain - do you still write for them? Do you still sort of maintain a ‘day job’, or do you now have the luxury of writing full time?
T: Noooo… I do. Three years ago, I was finally able to quit the day job. So I come from, I grew up in print magazine. Grew up, as in my career, in magazines. I was a Beauty Editor. And so I wrote about, you know, makeup, hair, and skincare, body trends, for Elle, Glamour… I was the first Black Beauty Editor at Glamour.
J: What? Go you!
T: Yeah. Essence, do you remember Teen People?
J: Oh, haha, my God.
T: … and Lucky Magazine? Yeah. Cosmo. So yeah, yeah. Yeah. That was my life for a very long time. And then once print magazine sort of, you know, evaporated into digital, I went over to brand side, and I became the Copy Director at uh, Este Lauder Company, so - and they own so many beauty brands, so, I - I did for… Tom Ford Beauty. Yeah, I’m very steeped in beauty writing.
J: And so, three years ago, what happened?
T: Three years ago, Seven Days in June happened. And it was a Reese’s Book Club pick - actually, it was four years now. And it was an instant New York Times Bestseller, and it just really changed my life. And I was finally like, why am I maintaining this, you know, day job that’s kicking my ass, and you know, then not sleeping to write books, which is the real thing I wanna to do? Most authors do have to have a day job, because they don’t pay us anything. But, I had finally, after writing for 20 years, I finally got to the best part.
J: I’m noticing a lot of you guys are sort of sitting forward - are you struggling to hear us? Would you like us to use microphones? Okay, you can hear us now. I’m sorry if you missed any piece of that absolutely hilarious and delightful conversation because we were too quiet.
T: I’m sorry! I was just saying I come from the print magazine world and I was a beauty journalist for a long time, and if you read any of my books and you’re wondering why I’m you know, always very focused on what exactly the character was wearing, and down to the lipstick and the fragrance, that’s why. It's muscle memory.
J: It has to be. It has to be. Okay, so I have this fun question. Which is, people often ask me if I am my FMC. Right, am I my Female Main Character. Do people ask you that question? My reply to them is ‘do I look like a chess genius to you?’ You know, ‘no, I’m not’. And is there always a piece of you in every single character in the book? Of course, it has to be. You’re the creator, you’re the God of that world, of course pieces of you are going to filter into that universe. But, the question is do you base your characters - any or all of them - on real people, other than the historicalness of some of these characters in A Love Song for Ricki Wilde, and if so, do they know that the character is based on them? And I know that Audre is based on Lena, but is that the exception, or is that the norm?
T: That is an exception, because all of the other characters are based on me. Truly!
[laughter]
T: Truly! All the different facets of my personality because that's - I don’t know how else to make things real. They start off with a… a nugget of… of something in my personality. Like, my finger or - you know, not literally - but you’re cutting off a piece of yourself and growing something around it. Yeah, all of my FMCs have been me - the one who is the least is Ricki Wilde, because I wanted to set out to write about someone who really was not a lot like me, at all - free spirited, no. Youngest daughter, no - I’m the oldest daughter, I’m type A, I’m Leo, I have a plan, I would never fly off and start a flower shop somewhere where I didn’t know where...
You’re Resheenaginarae?
T: I’m her sisters! [holds up a hand] I’m not bitchy!
[laughter]
T: But I am her sisters, and I’m of her sister’s generation, to, where you - you shot for the plan that made the most fiscal sense, and you know, you wanted to please your family -
J: [slightly sarcastically] And so you’re an author.
T: [Tia laughs]
J: You went for the plan that was gonna make the most fiscal sense.
[they scoff]
T: This is what I tell people, it looks like… An author’s life looks whimsical, right? You’re wandering through the fields making up stories in your head. However, the way I went about it was so - no one who knew me at nine is surprised that I’m doing this today, this exact thing. I was telling you when I was seven, I was like ‘alright this is what I’m gonna do with my life’. And as such, I will go out for newspaper. I will go out for my yearbook. I will get internships. I will… go to UVA because their English program is insane. I will be an editor on the newspaper there ‘cause it’s award winning. I will make sure I get a job at a fashion magazine because that is my other dream, the second I graduate. And that’s what I did. And when I’m at these fashion magazines, I’m gonna work on my fiction craft, which is exactly what I did. And by 24, I had a novel published. So, even though it seems like a whimsical Type B pursuit, the way I pursued it was like someone… studying to be a lawyer. Do you know what I mean? Or someone going after, you know, uh, wanting to be a surgeon. There were steps that had to be taken, there were bullet points that had to be crossed off, there were, you know, goals… so yeah, even within the sort of umbrella of an artistic pursuit, you can still have a very technical, geeky approach to it.
J: And you know, you’re talking about whimsy, and I’m sitting here looking at the word that is tattooed on your wrist, would you show that to…
T: [Tia raises her hand] Write.
J: It says ‘write’!
T: Lest we forget.
J: Lest we forget. And think that there’s a - there’s a lovely whimsicalness of that, and yeah, the thing that you wrote, was the goal.
T: Right. Exactly.
J: Right? Was the thing around which all of the other things have moved. And so, tell us a little bit about that story. When did you get it, and why?
T: Again if you read Seven Days in June, my main character eva has chronic migraines, and she has them because I have them. I’ve had them since I was a little girl, and I’m in pain everyday and it’s coloured every facet of my life. And some years are worse than others, some seasons are worse than others. When I was writing The Perfect Find, [gestures] the yellow book, it was a bad time… for me. I was in the hospital a lot, hooked up to IVs. My skin was turning green because I was, you know, on morphine and oxycontin and all these… hardcore… you know, when doctors don’t know what to do they - they throw it all at the wall and see what sticks. So, I - you know, there were times in 2013, I was just a zombie, an absolute zombie. How - what’s gonna save me? How do I find a way out of this? And I was like, oh, you need to write. Need to write. You’re a writer. Writers write. That always does it for you. And so, I got this tattoo to remind me to - you know, it’s my compass, when I get fuzzy and I can’t figure out what’s going on, oh I’m a writer. I write. Do that.
J: And… do you have a daily writing practice?
T: I don’t, because I can’t, because of the unpredictability -
J: The migraines.
T: [Tia nods] … of my head. So… really… I have the most unhealthy writing practice. What it is, is whenever I feel, you know, on the pain scale to ten, if I have a ‘below six day’ that means I must work. And I have to work a lot, because I don’t know when it’s gonna get worse. So, if I feel okay, I sit down and write until I collapse. Cuz, who knows? It might be ‘til next Tuesday until I can do it again?!
J: Right, write, you might be good.
T: Yeah, yeah, that’s my writing practice.
J: Right on.
T: Not everyone can do it everyday.
J: Right, and there’s lots of reason why.
T: And there’s lots of reason why.
J: This sort of comes back a little bit to the keynote this morning, when we talked about everyone having a superpower. And that - it’s a practice to figure out what your superpower is, and self-forgiveness is huge. Right? To be able to be like - yeah, my peers are out there doing 2000 words a day - and that’s not gonna happen.
T: Mhm.
J: Do you know? And so, it’s a personal - being a writer and being an author is a personal growth process as much as it is anything else. And it’s just - that’s just my opinion, but...
T: It’s so true. And also I must say, it took me until post-40 to - to find that sort of self-forgiveness, and even just awareness. You just - you spend so much time beating yourself up for not being like everybody else, and, well, she’s writing this much, and they’re - they have a newsletter, like, where’s mine? Something about getting older…
J: See, we’re gen x. We were not raised with forgiveness, we were raised with “ask permission later, and then hope you don’t get caught”. It was a totally different thing. Alright. Ready for another question?
T: Yes!
J: Okay. What book do you dreeeeeam of writing?
T: A book that hasn’t already been written?
J: Yes!
T: Umm…
J: Is there a book that’s on your list and you’re like, “someday I’m gonna write, [makes a ju-ju-zhu noise]?
T: I do have this idea… [groans]… this sort of Eat, Pray, Love, but Black. Have you guys - first of all, as a sidebar, did you read those Gilbert reviews… Girl. Ma’am. Not everything is meant to be put in a memoir. [laughter] I’ll just leave it there. And when you guys all find out what I’m talking about, you will understand. Elizabeth Gilbert is the writer of Eat, Pray, Love and she just came out with a new memoir about falling in love with her best friend, who was dying of cancer and getting hooked on drugs with her and then trying to kill her.
J: Oh, great!
T: Wild! [laughter]
J: Wonderful read!
T: Wild! Yeah, yeah yeah. Wild. What was I saying? [laughter] Oh, yeah, so I have this dream about writing about this women who was stuck in this sexually unfulfilling marriage for a long time, and so… she leaves him and goes on a sex quest through Europe, and wanting to try different - again, I cannot, he’s okay -
J: [addressing a younger audience member] Put your fingers in your ears and go “lalalalala”.
T: A funny sort of “now I’m gonna try this, now I’m gonna try that, you never know what I’m doing.”
J: Well, that sounds fun.
T: Yes, I would love to write that.
J: And If you get around to that, we’ll all be waiting.
T: Yes.
J: We’ll all be - we’ll be here for you. Alright. On the other side of that is what book do you wish you wrote?
T: So many. Did anyone read The Guest by Emma Cline a few years ago? My gaw... I love a liar, I love an unreliable narrator… a grifter, a con artist. I love it when they’re women. Like, girl - I can’t even tell the smallest lie, I can’t even imagine stacking them up. It’s just… And so, this book is told from the point of this girl who’s out in the Hamptons for a party. She’s staying with her much older boyfriend who breaks up with her, and she has nowhere to stay now, and she realizes that she doesn’t really… want to leave this party atmosphere. And so she scams her way into different peoples houses and different people’s lives and different peoples parties by making… them always think that she belongs. And it’s a fascinating story about… looks privilege, ethnic privilege, age privilege, how dumb we all are when it comes to assessing danger, you know what mean? In the face of just - kind of feeling like something is weird but wanting to be polite, like how much danger you can get yourself into. It is so fascinating.
J: Well, now we all have to go get it. There’s gonna be a long list at the library.
T: Yeah.
J: Because we’re all gonna be like, ‘librarypoint.org, hold’ and there’s gonna be 32 people ahead of you, your wait is 16 weeks. [laughter] Wow, I just did that math and I just did it right. I just wanna say I just did math in public and I did it right. This might be the first time ever that has happened.
[clapping]
J: Oh, thank you!
[laughter]
J: Okay, so I’m gonna open this up to the crew here. Do you guys have questions? Before I open it up? Because I have… I have - I - my list is not exhausted. But do you guys have questions for Tia?
[audience noises]
J: You want me to just keep asking questions? Alright, we’re gonna do this - I’m gonna keep asking questions, and when you come up with one, shoot your hand into the air, and if you don’t see me look at you, go “hey, Jen” after whichever one of us is done talking, okay? Oh - do you have one? Oh, great! What’s your question?
Audience Member: Hi! We talked about …writing… having a disability… someone who maybe more type b … and …
J: [repeating the question on the mic] So that question was Tia is Type A, and so her plan makes sense. And if you’re Type B, and perhaps you don’t have quite such a constructive plan, what advice does Tia have to help you get that book written, did I say that right? Okay.
T: So my way is not the only way. So, you - Jen - had a question about plotter vs pantser - are you a plotter, or are you a pantser. A plotter is a person who has a very, fully fleshed out outline, before you sit down to write. You‘ve done all the research, you know exactly what this book is about - that’s how I am. But then the other type is a pantser, and that’s someone who flies by the seat of their pants. And, a lot of bestselling writers that you love are pantsers.
J: Pantsers with busy editors.
T: With very busy editors, yes, but they’re - that is also a way to do it. Just sit down and see where the story goes. To me, that sounds - uh, skin me alive. I cannot fathom. But it really works for a lot of people. Also, for me, I’ve always been such a timer. To my detriment. What’s gonna happen if I don’t do this by 23? Nothing, you’re good. But I was wound very tight. Again, eldest daughter. But it doesn’t have to be like that. There is no timeline, there is no... deadline when you’re writing for yourself. So just take the time when you feel like doing it, and - and let your story unfold. It doesn’t have to be this rigid thing. It could be writing for pleasure. [scoffs] Hah, imagine.
Indeed.
J: So how many words are we looking at here?
T: Oh my gosh I don’t remember that one.
J: Or what about your current work in progress, do you have a word count goal?
T: It’s currently at 100,000.
J: Are you gonna leave it there, are you gonna reduce, or - do you get to add?
T: Oh, I’m not finished, so it’s gonna be more, but then I will need to reduce.
J: And does Hachette - Hachette right?
T: [Tia nods]
J: Does Hachette give you a…?
T: [Tia shakes head no] Mmh-mm, no.
J: They’re just like, write whatever you want, Tia, and we’ll figure it out?
T: [Tia nods] Yeah.
J: Has it always been that way?
T: [Tia shakes head no, chuckling] Noooooo.
J: Okay, can you talk a little bit about that, especially with the new writers in the room?
T: Yeah, because I’m a [sort of finger quotes] ‘proven writer’, I mean, whatever that means, I have people who read my books, regularly -
J: Right. It means that she makes money for the publisher, kids. That’s what that means.
[laughter]
T: You have to make money for the publisher, and so you get a little bit more - a little bit more, [finger pinch] leeway, when that is the case. Earlier in my career, that was not the case. It was ‘this book is 90,000 words, two words over and we’re sending the feds.’ [laughter] You know, it was very strict. It was very - I didn’t have any say over the cover or things like that. But the deeper you get into your writing career, what is the word I want to say… the more comfortable your publisher is with letting you do your thing and knowing that they’re gonna get their returns, that’s when your - you know, you have a little bit more… freedom in that way.
J: And did - you know, without giving us numbers, did hitting the NY Times list affect your advance for the next book?
T: Yes, thank GOD. [laughter]
J: Finally.
T: Finally.
J: It is not unusual for a debut author to make what, $5000 for their first book?
T: [Tia nods] Yes.
J: Think about that number, you spend a year and a half, two years, three years, 12 years, whatevs, writing a book. And they’re like, here’s [exaggerated voice] five thousand dollars!
T: And mind you, a freelance, uh, long form piece at Vanity Fair or Vogue is $3,000. [pauses with a face] So compare an entire book to an article in a magazine, and the difference is two thousand!? And that’s a normal, that’s a standard advance.
J: It is very standard. And not only that, but you have to give 15% of that to your agent, and then you have to make sure that you’ve got a good contract so that you don’t have to pay back that advance, right, your agent has to do a good job. And after that, you have to [fake sobs] pay the IRS, so you get taxed on that money. So how much money do you really make with that $5,000? I have a lot of people - you know, MPC Publishing, we’re a growing independent publishing house. And, one of the things that we get is a lot of people who come to us and they say, ‘well I’m gonna write my book and I’m gonna put it out there, and see if it takes off’. May I please have your reaction to that statement, Ms. Williams?
T: [Tia, smiles, laughs, then grimaces] See if it takes off?! Where?! How?! Who?! You can’t see - the - the work that it takes to move the needle? I mean, it’s - it is just such a heavy lift - you - there is no - no - gone are the days of ‘here is the book’, you know, ‘god bless’. You have to put your back into it.
J: You absolutely do, and this is coming from a NY Times bestseller, my friends. Do not take it from me, right, your friendly neighborhood independent publisher. Take it from her. This is - we were talking about newsletters earlier, right? This is not a thing that other people are going to miraculously do for you. I mean, do you pay for your own website? Or have you finally gotten to this place where they do that for you. “They.”
T: No, I do my own.
J: Yeah. So if you think that your advance book deal is gonna come with all this marketing support - I have this friend who’s published by Putnam, and she’s like [in a flat voice] “Why do anything better for my books?” Does she have an end cap? No - you know the little thing you see in Barnes & Noble, that says “this book is over here”. You know, Wings of Fire. Big endcap. Because they know they’re gonna make their money. A lot of us don’t get those end caps and things like that. And you’re gonna find Tia’s books in the romance section and you’re gonna find them on the NY Times list. How many other authors are out there who are also amazing, but who you can’t find their books? Right? Or something ends up on the remainder table. Okay, have you ever gone into a used book store and seen your book on the shelf and been totally - what was your reaction if you did?
T: I actually have not, but worse. Sixth avenue in Manhattan.
J: Oh, no.
T: Sort of midtown, in the twenties, there are these tables, where I don’t know where these books have been sourced, they all smell like mothballs - it’s just- there’s always a guy with incense next to them …
[laughter. Tia and Jen joke back and forth a bit, and wrap up the interview]
